Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
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- Domestique
- Posts: 224
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:33 pm
- Location: Jamaica Plain/Westborough MA
Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Men's Cat 4:
Blue bird day for racing. The course was in great shape - although it's not without challenges - fairly narrow for a field of 50, with pine needles/debris etc. dusting the edges of the road/gutter.
The first few laps seemed very fast, with Greenline Velo (GLV) moving to the front immediately and pushing the pace. I took a few minutes to line up early so I was on the front at the beginning, and was able to stay close.
After the first prime, a GLV rider went off the front - I chased him down, and two other riders bridged and we held a break for about 3/4 of a lap before being brought back. As many of you had shared with me - this was not really a race where breaks would be successful. We were all back together.
There were a few guys in this race who were pretty aggressive - a fair amount of contact side to side which made it nerve wracking through some of the turns. There were also guys who didn't mind flying up the gutter, or dive bombing in on corners. I'm still getting used to racing.
Fast forward to the final lap: GLV puts three guys on the front. I knew the right wheel to follow, designated sprinter who was sitting 3 and I was 4. Some guys tried to push in on this spot, but having lost out to this rider at Tufts, I wasn't going to give up the wheel. The two guys on his lead out train peeled off earlier than I think he would have liked, and he was in the wind coming past the start line - but he was strong and continued to push the pace. Another guy was in the mix and started sprinting going in to the last turn - the two of them were side by side and I was in tow. With about 125 meters to go, I swung outside and hammered with everything I had, punching open a bit of a gap. I was across the line 1/50.
We had a number of other strong MRC performances today - looking forward to the race reports.
Blue bird day for racing. The course was in great shape - although it's not without challenges - fairly narrow for a field of 50, with pine needles/debris etc. dusting the edges of the road/gutter.
The first few laps seemed very fast, with Greenline Velo (GLV) moving to the front immediately and pushing the pace. I took a few minutes to line up early so I was on the front at the beginning, and was able to stay close.
After the first prime, a GLV rider went off the front - I chased him down, and two other riders bridged and we held a break for about 3/4 of a lap before being brought back. As many of you had shared with me - this was not really a race where breaks would be successful. We were all back together.
There were a few guys in this race who were pretty aggressive - a fair amount of contact side to side which made it nerve wracking through some of the turns. There were also guys who didn't mind flying up the gutter, or dive bombing in on corners. I'm still getting used to racing.
Fast forward to the final lap: GLV puts three guys on the front. I knew the right wheel to follow, designated sprinter who was sitting 3 and I was 4. Some guys tried to push in on this spot, but having lost out to this rider at Tufts, I wasn't going to give up the wheel. The two guys on his lead out train peeled off earlier than I think he would have liked, and he was in the wind coming past the start line - but he was strong and continued to push the pace. Another guy was in the mix and started sprinting going in to the last turn - the two of them were side by side and I was in tow. With about 125 meters to go, I swung outside and hammered with everything I had, punching open a bit of a gap. I was across the line 1/50.
We had a number of other strong MRC performances today - looking forward to the race reports.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
As I predicted. Cha Ching!!!!!
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Bradzilla claims his first cat 4 victims !!!!!
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Fantastic - Brad out sprinting GLV with lead out train for the win. Those guys seem to always control the races they and you showed them who was boss.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Nicely done. Double-upgrade year in the works?
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Nice job Brad. I don't think you need our advice any more... we need yours!
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- Domestique
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- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:33 pm
- Location: Jamaica Plain/Westborough MA
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Thanks for the encouragement guys.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Nice job Brad! The cat 4 peloton will soon be checking Bikereg hoping you aren't registered.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Great job Brad and thanks for the tips before I started my race. The Cat 5 40+ race was my first real crit and the field was 15-17, so there was plenty of room and made for an uneventful ride. The pace was moderate to fast, depending on who was doing the pulling. I generally conserved my strength and was happy to rotate to the back after a pull until the final two laps, where I tried to stay near the front. One guy went off the front about half a lap to go, but nobody was concerned. I waited until two guys broke to chase him down and I tagged on. On the final turn I was fourth and jumped a little early to third, but could not hold it to the line and finished fifth.
The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Top five is still a solid result.Fintan wrote: On the final turn I was fourth and jumped a little early to third, but could not hold it to the line and finished fifth.
You cannot practice the final 1-2K of a crit. The only way to learn is by making mistakes in races, figuring out what you did wrong, and fixing it the next time around.
- PJ McQuade
- Chasseur
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Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Bad Bad, way to crush! Lake Sunapee might be a good uphill sprint finish for you. As you demonstrated at Qyabbin you're fast up hills too. Check it out.
To climb steep hills requires a slow pace at first.
-Shakespeare
-Shakespeare
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Nice job Fintan! 5th is solid.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Blue Hills Crit CAT5:
Long story short, I have a lot of learning to do.
This being my first crit experience left me feeling out the strategy throughout the race. The course was nice and flat for the most part with one little bump shortly after the start/finish line. Throughout the race this was a very slow climb with alot of opportunities to break it up a bit with a downhill following the climb, which also means it is easier to chase things down. I managed to be in the top 2-8 around every lap, which I think was pretty good positioning.
First lesson: Throughout the race there were 5-6 attempts at break aways, and I was the first of second to chase them down. These breaks never held, as soon as we got a 100-200 ft gap the others in the group or pair would sit up and quit working. So we sucked back into the pack. What i learned was not to chase all/any of these down.
Second lesson: Don’t try anything stupid on the last lap, there is no time to rest up after. Like I mentioned before the back side hill climb was a great spot to start a break. So on the last lap I was feeling good, and took the opportunity to jump and pulled 200-300 ft away from the group, solo. The pace picked up and I could tell they were gaining. I soon realized I would not be able to hold this for the remainder, especially if I wanted to attempt any kind of sprint. Down the back side before the final lap there were two more attempts made to break for the finish, both I chased down directly behind the attacker. As we rounded the final bend into the finish line I was in second position, and then it was time to sprint. I started hammering, and I soon realized that my legs were done from my earlier breakaway attempt and I began to get swarmed. I managed to get edged out for 9th at the last second, coming in 10th/40.
This race has proved to be a valuable learning experience, as I assume each race will continue to provide.
Long story short, I have a lot of learning to do.
This being my first crit experience left me feeling out the strategy throughout the race. The course was nice and flat for the most part with one little bump shortly after the start/finish line. Throughout the race this was a very slow climb with alot of opportunities to break it up a bit with a downhill following the climb, which also means it is easier to chase things down. I managed to be in the top 2-8 around every lap, which I think was pretty good positioning.
First lesson: Throughout the race there were 5-6 attempts at break aways, and I was the first of second to chase them down. These breaks never held, as soon as we got a 100-200 ft gap the others in the group or pair would sit up and quit working. So we sucked back into the pack. What i learned was not to chase all/any of these down.
Second lesson: Don’t try anything stupid on the last lap, there is no time to rest up after. Like I mentioned before the back side hill climb was a great spot to start a break. So on the last lap I was feeling good, and took the opportunity to jump and pulled 200-300 ft away from the group, solo. The pace picked up and I could tell they were gaining. I soon realized I would not be able to hold this for the remainder, especially if I wanted to attempt any kind of sprint. Down the back side before the final lap there were two more attempts made to break for the finish, both I chased down directly behind the attacker. As we rounded the final bend into the finish line I was in second position, and then it was time to sprint. I started hammering, and I soon realized that my legs were done from my earlier breakaway attempt and I began to get swarmed. I managed to get edged out for 9th at the last second, coming in 10th/40.
This race has proved to be a valuable learning experience, as I assume each race will continue to provide.
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- Domestique
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Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Fintan, Winslow - great job guys. Top 5 and Top 10 respectively are solid results.
Stefan made a great point "You cannot practice the final 1-2K of a crit. The only way to learn is by making mistakes in races, figuring out what you did wrong, and fixing it the next time around."
Lots of learning every time we line up.
We will have another crack at it this weekend at Myles and Wells.
Stefan made a great point "You cannot practice the final 1-2K of a crit. The only way to learn is by making mistakes in races, figuring out what you did wrong, and fixing it the next time around."
Lots of learning every time we line up.
We will have another crack at it this weekend at Myles and Wells.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
From your description, I would argue that your mistake was not that you tried to go early, but that you weren't fully committed to the effort.Winslow wrote: Second lesson: Don’t try anything stupid on the last lap, there is no time to rest up after.... I soon realized I would not be able to hold this for the remainder, especially if I wanted to attempt any kind of sprint.
Think of it as getting one shot at the finish of every race. Especially in Cat5, everyone seems to want to save their powder for the final sprint. But if you think that "jumping the sprint" is your best bet at winning, do that. And if it doesn't work, figure out why and try it differently the next time. But don't let the reason that it didn't work be that you convinced yourself that it probably wouldn't.
And 10th is nothing to sneeze at.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
Awesome job Brad, I knew you were going to win!
I think that Cat 5's are more likely to make suicide attacks with one lap to go than sitting in for a field sprint due to inexperience. "Jumping the sprint" usually never works unless you're a huge sandbagger. I've learned that if its all together with one lap to go, then it will end in a field sprint 99% of the time, therefore, not being in the wind and picking a strong wheel to follow going into the sprint is crucial.
The only time I've every successfully got away with one lap to go was actually at the last Wompatuck Tuesday night race last year, huge field. Mark McCormack was off the front for a few laps and nobody wanted to chase so I attacked with less than one lap to go with Bill Kenney and Paul Curley. We didn't catch Mark because Curley wouldn't take a pull and the field almost caught us. I finished 3rd behind McCormack and Curley. It was the most painful last lap I've ever had and it almost didn't work.
I disagree with the above quote and agree with the following:swawersik wrote:From your description, I would argue that your mistake was not that you tried to go early, but that you weren't fully committed to the effort. Think of it as getting one shot at the finish of every race. Especially in Cat5, everyone seems to want to save their powder for the final sprint. But if you think that "jumping the sprint" is your best bet at winning, do that. And if it doesn't work, figure out why and try it differently the next time. But don't let the reason that it didn't work be that you convinced yourself that it probably wouldn't.
Winslow wrote:Second lesson: Don’t try anything stupid on the last lap, there is no time to rest up after.
I think that Cat 5's are more likely to make suicide attacks with one lap to go than sitting in for a field sprint due to inexperience. "Jumping the sprint" usually never works unless you're a huge sandbagger. I've learned that if its all together with one lap to go, then it will end in a field sprint 99% of the time, therefore, not being in the wind and picking a strong wheel to follow going into the sprint is crucial.
The only time I've every successfully got away with one lap to go was actually at the last Wompatuck Tuesday night race last year, huge field. Mark McCormack was off the front for a few laps and nobody wanted to chase so I attacked with less than one lap to go with Bill Kenney and Paul Curley. We didn't catch Mark because Curley wouldn't take a pull and the field almost caught us. I finished 3rd behind McCormack and Curley. It was the most painful last lap I've ever had and it almost didn't work.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
In re-reading my OP, I may have come across as arguing that going early is a sure-fire tactic. It's not, and that's not what I meant to imply.pcollins wrote: I disagree with the above quote and agree with the following:Winslow wrote:Second lesson: Don’t try anything stupid on the last lap, there is no time to rest up after.
I think that Cat 5's are more likely to make suicide attacks with one lap to go than sitting in for a field sprint due to inexperience. "Jumping the sprint" usually never works unless you're a huge sandbagger. I've learned that if its all together with one lap to go, then it will end in a field sprint 99% of the time, therefore, not being in the wind and picking a strong wheel to follow going into the sprint is crucial.
Instead, what I was trying to say was that you can't conclude that it's a "stupid" tactic if you tried it, but were still thinking in the back of your mind "if this doesn't work, I'll try for the sprint.". I actually think that kind of half-commitment is exactly why going early rarely works in a cat5 field.
In my experience as a guy with limited climbing ability, I tried for years to earn upgrade points in crits, assuming that to win, I'd need to sprint. This was frustrating, as I actually have the 10 sec and 1 min power profile of a small 12 year old boy. so even if I picked the right wheel, I often still couldn't come around him, and I ended up with many mid-pack sprint finishes to my name.
I do have a fairly high 2-5 minute peak power, though, and at some point realized I needed to use that to my advantage. Having seen a guy named Curtis Singmaster, who had a similar profile (big guy, but no sprint) win races at New Britain, Attleboro, and Beverly, all on last-lap attacks, I thought "hmm, maybe I should try that."
It didn't work well for a long time. But after much trial and error, it accounted for half of my upgrade points. What made the difference? 1.) It took a LONG time to figure out the timing. First, how to position in the last 5 laps, then when to make the attack. As you say, going with one to go is suicide (for me at least), but going with half a lap left sometimes led to hesitation as none of the sprinters wanted to be the one to chase. Attacking just before some sort of obstacle (a set of turns, a small hill, etc.) is often useful too, as it provides an extra cause for hesitation in the pack. 2.) Full commitment - if I was thinking anything other than "this is my last and only effort," it wouldn't work. And much of the time, it still didn't work. That's bike racing.
I'm not saying that a last-lap attack will win even 10% of the time, I'm only saying that there's more ways to win a crit than a sprint or a long breakaway. Experiment, make mistakes, and figure out what works for you.
Re: Mt. Blue Crit (Blue Hills) 2015-05-03
You have to be willing to commit fully if you want anything to stick! I think that's the big lesson. Decide, commit, succeed...in that order.