Killington 2014 Blog
Killington 2014 Blog
I've decided to experiment a little by posting some near real-time updates on the Killington Stage Race throughout the weekend (Russ will be proud). Also check twitter for some additional chatter. We have a record 4 (maybe 5) people participating this year, including myself and PJ in the 3s, Jacob and Nolan in the 4s (technically 4/5 but its not their fault) and a possible guest appearance from Nolan's dad Ron in the 40+.
I encourage all of those guys to post random updates and pictures throughout the weekend on this thread, and of course race reports.
As a reminder, this is an easy 3 day stage race:
Sat Stage 1 - 18mi Circuit with a 3 mile power climb, Cat 3s do it 4 times for 72 miles (ugh) and 4/5 somehow only does 2 laps for 37 miles (used to be 3 they're getting jipped). This will be followed by the team dinner and massages (ok no massages)
Sun Stage 2 - 62 mile road race with 2 massive climbs finishing at the Killington Gondola. Not my favorite
Mon Stage 3 - 11 mile TT - Gradual uphill usually into the wind with only 1 turn. Pain Cave
Enjoy...
I encourage all of those guys to post random updates and pictures throughout the weekend on this thread, and of course race reports.
As a reminder, this is an easy 3 day stage race:
Sat Stage 1 - 18mi Circuit with a 3 mile power climb, Cat 3s do it 4 times for 72 miles (ugh) and 4/5 somehow only does 2 laps for 37 miles (used to be 3 they're getting jipped). This will be followed by the team dinner and massages (ok no massages)
Sun Stage 2 - 62 mile road race with 2 massive climbs finishing at the Killington Gondola. Not my favorite
Mon Stage 3 - 11 mile TT - Gradual uphill usually into the wind with only 1 turn. Pain Cave
Enjoy...
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
First Blog Entry:
In preparation for the TT at Killington I encouraged all of the guys to join me this last Wednesday at the Charlie Baker TT in Concord. Nolan was the only one with the stones to make it. Jacob was savings his legs and ironing his kit that night. PJ has decided to just "wing it" on Monday, having recently done a TT at Tour of the Catskills (oh wait that was last summer). He may want to lower his GC expectations as there are always a host of TTing badasses at Killington who come out of the woodwork.
Again kudos to Nolan for coming out. He put down a solid effort but showed his inexperience by forgetting his shoe covers. That cost him at least 3 seconds. He did beat the old fat guy who was trying to sell us Cervelo frames from China for $600. (www.cervelosforcheap.com I think) For me this was my first TT on the new Aero Ridley and it didn't disappoint, clocking in only 40 seconds down on my PR which was done when I actually owned a TT bike and did it more than once every 2 years. In 2011 and 2012 I came in 28th in the KSR TT, I'm hoping to get at least 27th this time.
In preparation for the TT at Killington I encouraged all of the guys to join me this last Wednesday at the Charlie Baker TT in Concord. Nolan was the only one with the stones to make it. Jacob was savings his legs and ironing his kit that night. PJ has decided to just "wing it" on Monday, having recently done a TT at Tour of the Catskills (oh wait that was last summer). He may want to lower his GC expectations as there are always a host of TTing badasses at Killington who come out of the woodwork.
Again kudos to Nolan for coming out. He put down a solid effort but showed his inexperience by forgetting his shoe covers. That cost him at least 3 seconds. He did beat the old fat guy who was trying to sell us Cervelo frames from China for $600. (www.cervelosforcheap.com I think) For me this was my first TT on the new Aero Ridley and it didn't disappoint, clocking in only 40 seconds down on my PR which was done when I actually owned a TT bike and did it more than once every 2 years. In 2011 and 2012 I came in 28th in the KSR TT, I'm hoping to get at least 27th this time.
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Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Yes, Nolan's dad will be rolling up to the start line of the KSR for the first time since 1992. My goals are to stay upright and finish and show off my Zipps (as I am contractually obligated). Before registering I pondered whether to race with the 3's and support PJ and Cratty or race 40+. After discovering that stage 1 for the 3's is 70+ miles and the 40+ is only 50 miles the decision was made. Sadly, not enough miles in the legs for 70 miles of Cratty at the front towing the field for PJ
Then, after returning from the TT Wednesday night, Nolan informed me that, according to Cratty, the 40+ field looks stacked and the 3's might be a better choice.....crap.
Nolan and I are staying at the Killington Center Inn and Suites. We will be driving up tonight.
Shoe covers for the TT? Maybe I should get a skin suit first.
Good luck to other MRC'ers in the race. See you tomorrow.

Nolan and I are staying at the Killington Center Inn and Suites. We will be driving up tonight.
Shoe covers for the TT? Maybe I should get a skin suit first.
Good luck to other MRC'ers in the race. See you tomorrow.
- PJ McQuade
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Re: Killington 2014 Blog
This will be my first KSR and I'm pretty excited. I've been tapering all week and feel pretty good. Jeremy's description of Stage 1 involves kamikazies and exploding ships so I'm planning to ride cautiously and let the sprinters do their thing. Sunday I hope to make the selection on the big climbs and minimize lost time on the TT Monday. My last TT was actually a team TT in Sudbury but Jeremy forgot about that because he was dropped in the first mile! Looking forward to hanging with the squad this weekend. Gotta go pack my shoe covers!
Last edited by PJ McQuade on Fri May 23, 2014 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To climb steep hills requires a slow pace at first.
-Shakespeare
-Shakespeare
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
That's it PJ no free ride to the top of East Mountain Rd
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Let's carve a few turns after the finish on Sunday!
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Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Random updates:
Jacob and I scouted the infamous North Rd on Sundays stage. I hope I didn't psych him out with my tales of woe.
Jacob made homemade oatmeal raisin cookies. I had 4. If I win I will thank him, if I lose I will blame the cookies.
After draining my rear zipp which was full of water from the ride up, I believe the Ridley is ready to go. It's relaxing pre-race:
Jacob and I scouted the infamous North Rd on Sundays stage. I hope I didn't psych him out with my tales of woe.
Jacob made homemade oatmeal raisin cookies. I had 4. If I win I will thank him, if I lose I will blame the cookies.
After draining my rear zipp which was full of water from the ride up, I believe the Ridley is ready to go. It's relaxing pre-race:
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Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Quick update. 4/5 just finished with Jacob right at the front with a possible 5th place but definitely in the top 10. Nolan was slightly off the back but came in strong ahead a large chase group.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Day 1 Circuit Race, 4/5 Open Field:
Nolan and I did two laps with our group, which is half of what Jeremy and PJ are doing, but at ~37 miles is still nothing to sneeze at. The conditions were good; after a morning drizzle, the road was damp in places, but was more dry than wet.
In general, the pace was reasonable with minor surges scattered sparsely throughout. We had two KOM sprints and one intermediate points sprint and guys worked hard for those, which stretched out the field and briefly made things hard. For those intermediate sprints, I tried to take advantage of the situation to get a good position while simultaneously minimizing effort. The first points sprint (after one full lap) was a good chance to see the finish and I was in the top 10 wheels there without too much trouble. I generally rode conservatively and wasn't under too much duress.
At some point on the home stretch, I touched handlebars with a guy on my left. It was one of those where you're kind of leaning in to each other and you have to just countersteer away without panicking and it feels like it takes 10 seconds to disconnect, but it's probably more like 1.5. Anyways, no harm done thankfully.
With 5K to go, the pace was only moderate, and I was able to move up on the outside line without working too hard as the front of the field was two abreast, leaving a bunch of space. The downhill sprint was as fast as advertised, and also a lot of fun. I'm running a 50 tooth big ring, and Jeremy assured me that it would be impossible to win with that. My approach to the sprint was to find the right wheel, keep out of the wind, and resolve to spin the cranks as quick as I possibly could. As fast as it was (45 MPH, 120 RPM in the 50x11), it felt very manageable in the sense that there was enough time and space to work with. With a good mix of patience and aggression, I was able to finish 4th. If you look at the finish photo, you can see that the difference between 4th and 7th is about 1/2 a wheel. I'm pretty sure that I punched through that line of 3 guys with less than 25 meters to go, which took a measure of luck. You can also see that the winner clearly pulled out a very well timed bike throw to get the millimeters that he needed. Fun stuff!
http://velocityresults.com/results/509/ ... lington-vt
Nolan and I did two laps with our group, which is half of what Jeremy and PJ are doing, but at ~37 miles is still nothing to sneeze at. The conditions were good; after a morning drizzle, the road was damp in places, but was more dry than wet.
In general, the pace was reasonable with minor surges scattered sparsely throughout. We had two KOM sprints and one intermediate points sprint and guys worked hard for those, which stretched out the field and briefly made things hard. For those intermediate sprints, I tried to take advantage of the situation to get a good position while simultaneously minimizing effort. The first points sprint (after one full lap) was a good chance to see the finish and I was in the top 10 wheels there without too much trouble. I generally rode conservatively and wasn't under too much duress.
At some point on the home stretch, I touched handlebars with a guy on my left. It was one of those where you're kind of leaning in to each other and you have to just countersteer away without panicking and it feels like it takes 10 seconds to disconnect, but it's probably more like 1.5. Anyways, no harm done thankfully.
With 5K to go, the pace was only moderate, and I was able to move up on the outside line without working too hard as the front of the field was two abreast, leaving a bunch of space. The downhill sprint was as fast as advertised, and also a lot of fun. I'm running a 50 tooth big ring, and Jeremy assured me that it would be impossible to win with that. My approach to the sprint was to find the right wheel, keep out of the wind, and resolve to spin the cranks as quick as I possibly could. As fast as it was (45 MPH, 120 RPM in the 50x11), it felt very manageable in the sense that there was enough time and space to work with. With a good mix of patience and aggression, I was able to finish 4th. If you look at the finish photo, you can see that the difference between 4th and 7th is about 1/2 a wheel. I'm pretty sure that I punched through that line of 3 guys with less than 25 meters to go, which took a measure of luck. You can also see that the winner clearly pulled out a very well timed bike throw to get the millimeters that he needed. Fun stuff!
http://velocityresults.com/results/509/ ... lington-vt
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Cat 3 sprint 2:
Jeremy in top 5, PJ safely in the back.
Jeremy in top 5, PJ safely in the back.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
A solo break was off the front by about 40 seconds.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Cat 3 sprint3:
Three off the front by about 5-10 seconds. Jeremy in the top 10, PJ in the bunch. Looks like rain.
Three off the front by about 5-10 seconds. Jeremy in the top 10, PJ in the bunch. Looks like rain.
- PJ McQuade
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Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Oh it rained all right. The roads were flooding in areas on the final descent into the finish. Hats off to Jeremy for rubbing elbows at the front. I got an ST and put in a few efforts at the KOM, a false flat that went on forever. Jacob and Jeremy both in the top 10 - great showing by MRC. On to Stage 2.
To climb steep hills requires a slow pace at first.
-Shakespeare
-Shakespeare
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
These races aren't getting any easier. PJ and I got some unexpected good weather (we thought) getting to 67 and sunny at race start. First lap was steady, PJ went for the KOM but there were a couple of guys in a break so his 4th place didn't get him much. Still a good effort. I was felling confident as I was comfortable for the longish climb. Still 54 miles to go though, we cam down to the 1st sprint and I surfed effortlessly to the front and decided to sprint it out. Got 2nd out of the field, but 2 guys were still away. Climb #2 is where the sh!t hit the fan. We tore up the climb at almost 21 MPH and PJ and I were both dangling at the back at the KOM, I personally was close to the edge. Hung on over the top, grabbed a feed and off to Sprint #2. We had caught 1 guy on the climb but still 1 guy off the front. I recovered well and came in 2nd out of the field sprint, 3rd overall. Enough incentive to keep trying, so I thought at the time. Climb #3 was again outrageously fast with lots of attacks. With 2k to go I was literally off the back by about 100meters and thought it was over. With 1k to the KOM there was a flattish spot and I decided it was now or never and sprinted for dear life and somehow caught back on as the pace had dropped a little. Sucked wind through the KOM but the family was there spurring me on. Crazy decent then more attacking with 5mi to the 3rd sprint and I was off the back,yes again. The follow moto actually passed me but I keep pushing and again sprinted back onto the back. I'm pretty sure I'm screwed at this point as we had to go up one more climb. Didn't go for the 3rd sprint even though I was able to get to the front. 3 guys were in the break so it didn't make sense to burn my last match (or maybe I borrowed some additional matches, not sure). Surfed through in 10th but the pace never let up as people were chasing a dangerous break. I'm thinking doom and gloom at this point but the racing gods did me a favor, it started pouring. This could only help, and as we went up the 4th climb I was slightly rejuvenated (even though I was cramping from head to toe). Fast but steady climb saved my race, got over the KOM, descended fast, sprinted across some small gaps doing everything in my power to stay in the top 20. We hit the 3k downhill to the sprint and I was 10th and we were flying so fast we actually split the field. With 500m to go I was 3rd wheel behind 2 teammates but the group was back together. The 2nd guy opened up his sprint at 200 meters so I had no choice but to follow suit. With 100m to go I actually thought I had a chance to win or at least 2nd but I was cramping up big time. With 50m to go guys came up on both sides and somehow I went from a sure podium to 8th place.
In all I need to be happy since I was off the back multiple times. PJ glided in unharmed. I hope he feels better than me because I'm shattered. Tomorrow's report isn't going to be pretty.
In all I need to be happy since I was off the back multiple times. PJ glided in unharmed. I hope he feels better than me because I'm shattered. Tomorrow's report isn't going to be pretty.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Go Boys Go! Great reports. Makes me think (for a brief second) that I wish I was there.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Nice work guys. Hang in there. I do not even for a second wish I was there.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Quick update. As suspected I didn't recover well, got dropped on the first climb, chased for 15 minutes at full gas then got dropped again on north road. I wasn't going to make the time cut so I decided drinking beer at Long Trail was a better plan.
PJ was riding his typical bend don't break and got an unconfirmed 22nd which is very solid considering the bad asses in this race. Jacob we think grinnded out a top 30 as well. Not sure about Nolan. Looking forward to their reports.
Oh and the beer at Long Trail tasted good.
PJ was riding his typical bend don't break and got an unconfirmed 22nd which is very solid considering the bad asses in this race. Jacob we think grinnded out a top 30 as well. Not sure about Nolan. Looking forward to their reports.
Oh and the beer at Long Trail tasted good.
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Re: Killington 2014 Blog
I like your style Jeremy - Long Trail > Solo ride for 30 miles. 22nd is correct. That' s the hardest 22nd I've ever worked for and the finish of that race is the hardest finish of any race I've ever done. And I've done many. Not much time to go into great detail, but the North Road climb was much harder than I anticipated. Not scouting the climb cost me as I blew up early and the punches kept coming. I was with the leaders for maybe 1k and then a little gap became a bigger gap. I looked back and no one. No man's land! I continued to push myself as the group was in sight but you know how that goes...finally a chase group of ten came up to me before the KOM as the grades became more gentle. We worked together, not great but enough to have them in sight at the feed zone. Jeremy's dad was PRO in the feed zone! After some lamo stole my bottle out of his hand (then dropping it - karma?) he quickly grabbed another within seconds and gave me a bottle. Our chase group caught the leaders just before the dirt climb. Thankfully we had a lot of descending and rolling miles to bridge up because the dirt climb was not easy. Miles 40-50ish were uneventful but our group was surpisingly large - maybe 30+ with 2 alone up the road 3 minutes away. The attempt to catch the break was rather weak and I think most of us were just thinking about the brutal climb up the mountain on the horizon. East Mnt Road is one for the ages. It starts off stupid steep and our group exploded. A select group of 10 pulled away and I just couldn't make it. My plan became "ride within yourself and pick guys off." This worked to some extent and I was feeling good after the steep sections let up at the KOM. The KOM is NOT the top though! This actually helped my result though because I still had some left in the tank and the next few kilometers were in my wheelhouse - slight rises and a few kickers. I was with a group of 3 as we hit the last steep K to the finish and I put down a final little kick to edge a dude on the line. Pride points I guess. The TT is tomorrow - not my forte, but I'm hoping to move up the GC. This race is NO JOKE.
Last edited by PJ McQuade on Mon May 26, 2014 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
To climb steep hills requires a slow pace at first.
-Shakespeare
-Shakespeare
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Day 2 Road Race, 4/5 Open Field:
We had excellent weather today: blue skies and little puffy clouds perched above the green mountains.
My race was very similar to PJ's. I was slowly, painstakingly, and progressively dropped on North Road. Something isn't right with my left leg. It doesn't hurt too much, but when I work hard it doesn't do it's fair share. I suspect that it has something to do with my spill at the Marblehead race. Anyways, pain and suffering, blah, blah, blah.
Time to chase -- I gathered up one guy from up the road and another from behind and we started to work together prior to passing the KOM point. The guys were motivated and strong and we gathered up another lone rider from up the road just before the feed zone. I had hammered down a descent to pick that guy up and was on the limit, but the other guys kept the pace reasonable so that we could stick together. A ways after the feed zone, another guy came up from behind and immediately attacked -- he was motivated and strong, but didn't really play well with others. We made it work though and picked up another group of 3 from up the road. Soon enough we were in the cars and onto the back of the main bunch. It felt like a big victory.
No more than 300 meters later we turned on the dirt road climb -- no rest for the weary. The group did the climb at a reasonable pace, but I was absolutely on the peg. The guys on the front were having a conversation though, good for them. The climb was short enough that I was able to gut it out.
After returning to the flat roads, it became clear that there was a small break (maybe just one guy, I never got the full story) up the road -- alright, more chasing I guess. We managed to form one of the bigger race pace lines that I've ever seen. Our group was about 30 at that point, and at least 20 were participating to varying degrees. I took my pulls against my own better judgement, but I knew very well that I definitely didn't have the legs to race competitively up the finishing climb. We didn't catch the break before the climb.
When we got to the bottom of the E. Mountain Road climb I was of two minds: on one hand I had already decided to simply find my own pace up and let the race go away, so in that sense I was already beaten. On the other hand, it felt like a win to just be with that group at that point, so I felt good about it. I climbed as fast as possible, which wasn't very fast. Most of my group was faster. I just tried to keep my heart rate below 180 and avoid cramping. I was by myself for the most part, though I could see a few up the road and one down the road in certain spots. I ended up in 28th place, 8 minutes down on the winner! I did my best, so I'm satisfied. It's a tough climb.
We had excellent weather today: blue skies and little puffy clouds perched above the green mountains.
My race was very similar to PJ's. I was slowly, painstakingly, and progressively dropped on North Road. Something isn't right with my left leg. It doesn't hurt too much, but when I work hard it doesn't do it's fair share. I suspect that it has something to do with my spill at the Marblehead race. Anyways, pain and suffering, blah, blah, blah.
Time to chase -- I gathered up one guy from up the road and another from behind and we started to work together prior to passing the KOM point. The guys were motivated and strong and we gathered up another lone rider from up the road just before the feed zone. I had hammered down a descent to pick that guy up and was on the limit, but the other guys kept the pace reasonable so that we could stick together. A ways after the feed zone, another guy came up from behind and immediately attacked -- he was motivated and strong, but didn't really play well with others. We made it work though and picked up another group of 3 from up the road. Soon enough we were in the cars and onto the back of the main bunch. It felt like a big victory.
No more than 300 meters later we turned on the dirt road climb -- no rest for the weary. The group did the climb at a reasonable pace, but I was absolutely on the peg. The guys on the front were having a conversation though, good for them. The climb was short enough that I was able to gut it out.
After returning to the flat roads, it became clear that there was a small break (maybe just one guy, I never got the full story) up the road -- alright, more chasing I guess. We managed to form one of the bigger race pace lines that I've ever seen. Our group was about 30 at that point, and at least 20 were participating to varying degrees. I took my pulls against my own better judgement, but I knew very well that I definitely didn't have the legs to race competitively up the finishing climb. We didn't catch the break before the climb.
When we got to the bottom of the E. Mountain Road climb I was of two minds: on one hand I had already decided to simply find my own pace up and let the race go away, so in that sense I was already beaten. On the other hand, it felt like a win to just be with that group at that point, so I felt good about it. I climbed as fast as possible, which wasn't very fast. Most of my group was faster. I just tried to keep my heart rate below 180 and avoid cramping. I was by myself for the most part, though I could see a few up the road and one down the road in certain spots. I ended up in 28th place, 8 minutes down on the winner! I did my best, so I'm satisfied. It's a tough climb.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Wow guys. I thought the race was hard from Jeremy's reports the last few years. But no offense to Jeremy (OK, some offense), I thought, well, he is not a great climber. But reading this reports my legs were actually suffering without even being there. I cannot imagine how hard this race is, and give all of you kudos for going up there and putting it on the line. Awesome.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Slight offense taken. Trust me these aren't the climbs we do in eastern MA. Come on out next year.jraguin wrote:But no offense to Jeremy (OK, some offense), I thought, well, he is not a great climber.
- PJ McQuade
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Re: Killington 2014 Blog
I didn't have high hopes in the TT given my limited training in this discipline and the fact that the Cat 3 field was obviously stacked. My legs felt better than I thought they would on course though, but my HR was lower than normal for this kind of effort which probably means my legs were holding me back. Not surprising given the punishing last two days. I'm new to the power game (hoping to learn more at club event Wednesday) but my NP hit an all time high today. I emptied the tank and came up with an underwhelming result. I was hoping to move into the top twenty GC but I actually lost a spot and finished the race 23rd. Stage races, how do they work? This is a high quality event and it's mananged better than most races. It's also a kick in the teeth hard as nails stage race. Now I know.
To climb steep hills requires a slow pace at first.
-Shakespeare
-Shakespeare
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
Day 3 Time Trial, 4/5 Open Field:
I was feeling pretty poor this morning so I put down my bike in the middle of my warmup ride, sat down next to a mountain stream, meditated on the water, and massaged my quads with a rock. It was very zen. It was actually a little bit too zen because I ended up being 20 seconds late for my start time! OOPS!
I asked one of the officials there if I could just go ahead and go. She told me "That's not how time trials work". Ok, what should I do then? Go talk to that other official. Ok. The other official says go to the start line and put a foot down and just go. Ok, so I do that and I've lost 1:15. We're all learning together today about how time trials work.
I think I did as well as I could. There was wind. My legs hurt, especially lefty. This was my first serious effort using aero bars and I felt pretty good about my position -- but who really knows, right? Similar to PJ, I felt leg limited. Normally if my heart rate is 164 and my cadence is 84, I would just press down harder on the pedals and go faster -- not today. My official time was 30:45.10, good for 33rd place. My Strava time was 29:27, which in theory would have been good enough for 20th. Despite this, I managed to maintain my 27th place in GC for what that's worth (not much!)
I had a lot of fun, but I need some rest for sure.
I was feeling pretty poor this morning so I put down my bike in the middle of my warmup ride, sat down next to a mountain stream, meditated on the water, and massaged my quads with a rock. It was very zen. It was actually a little bit too zen because I ended up being 20 seconds late for my start time! OOPS!
I asked one of the officials there if I could just go ahead and go. She told me "That's not how time trials work". Ok, what should I do then? Go talk to that other official. Ok. The other official says go to the start line and put a foot down and just go. Ok, so I do that and I've lost 1:15. We're all learning together today about how time trials work.
I think I did as well as I could. There was wind. My legs hurt, especially lefty. This was my first serious effort using aero bars and I felt pretty good about my position -- but who really knows, right? Similar to PJ, I felt leg limited. Normally if my heart rate is 164 and my cadence is 84, I would just press down harder on the pedals and go faster -- not today. My official time was 30:45.10, good for 33rd place. My Strava time was 29:27, which in theory would have been good enough for 20th. Despite this, I managed to maintain my 27th place in GC for what that's worth (not much!)
I had a lot of fun, but I need some rest for sure.
Re: Killington 2014 Blog
I forgot to mention that I wore my Tron skin suit that I got as a birthday present from my wife. I understand that Jeremy has some good pictures of this that he will be sending along soon (hint).
Also thanks to Jeremy and his family for coming out to cheer us on. Actually the Crattys were cheering, and Jeremy was mostly yelling -- from the side of the road, driving alongside with the windows down, driving behind, etc. It was great!
Also thanks to Jeremy and his family for coming out to cheer us on. Actually the Crattys were cheering, and Jeremy was mostly yelling -- from the side of the road, driving alongside with the windows down, driving behind, etc. It was great!